After reading this post I looked up the Greek and came up with a quick alternative translation. I liked his point about Paul’s sexual rhetoric and was wondering how else this verse might be translated. I believe this is the correct Greek for the verse:
ὥστε, ἀδελφοί μου, καὶ ὑμεῖς ἐθανατώθητε τῷ νόμῳ διὰ τοῦ σώματος τοῦ Χριστοῦ, εἰς τὸ γενέσθαι ὑμᾶς ἑτέρῳ, τῷ ἐκ νεκρῶν ἐγερθέντι, ἵνα καρποφορήσωμεν τῷ θεῷ.
So how would you translate this, or alternatively, what is your preferred English translation of this passage?
March 18, 2008 at 5:21 pm
The Greek you have is correct.
“In the same way, my brothers, you also have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you are married to another, He who has been raised from the dead, so that you might bear fruit for God.”
The post you linked brings up a good point about γενέσθαι. It obviously is picking up on the marriage idea of the previous verse (as can be seen by the ὥστε clause). The phrase καρποφορήσωμεν however means to bear fruit, which is itself, understood in the context, also carrying the metaphor. I don’t think it’s a “cowardly” [quote from link] to translate it the way Paul wrote it. I think the author takes the metaphor too far in translating that we “marry and have sex with” Christ. Sure, one may argue that the usual way of translating the passage is more obscure than Paul’s use, but that way of translating it is opening up another can of worms with the metaphor entirely!
I think the translation I have above carries the metaphor as far as it needs to go.
March 18, 2008 at 10:58 pm
“Therefore my brothers and sisters, you are dead to the law because of Christ’s body so that you might marry another who was raised from the dead, so that you might produce fruit for God.”
OR
“Therefore my brothers and sisters, your death to the law because of Christ’s body points toward your marriage to another, the one who was raised from the dead, so that you might produce fruit for God.
Both these translations have a different emphasis depending on what in the text you want to focus on. The first one is more traditional and the second seeks to draw out the Greek language’s unique ability to put infinitives in prepositional phrases: εἰς τὸ γενέσθαι. Thus, I nominalized the two clauses around the prepositional phrase and changed the force of the PP into a verb “points toward.” εις expresses movement “to” or “into.” So when its εις+infinitive (in this case to marry), the meaning is toward the goal of marriage.
March 19, 2008 at 9:31 am
I’ve been looking at how to convey the same meaning, but in language that I would use (without embarrassment) with someone locally. In my current English usage then I came up with this:
So then, my brothers, you also died to the law through Christ’s body, for you to become another’s (the one who rose from the dead), so that you will produce fruit for God.
March 20, 2008 at 12:12 am
Hi Bryan. I’m the guy who originally posted the translation. I’m well aware that what I wrote was inadequate, and that’s exactly why I solicited some help from the blogosphere. “Bear fruit” would only work in English if we actually used that as a metaphor for childbirth. I would wager that if you asked ten pew sitters what “bearing fruit for Christ” meant, nine would tell you that it means making disciples, reading their bibles, praying etc. In a sense, they are correct, but since “bearing fruit” no longer has sexual/pregnancy connotations in English (apart from “fertility clinics,” but that has become a specialized word), they lose out on the relational connotations of the rhetoric.
Mike, a couple of notes. First, we can’t get too specific with what a preposition has to mean in Koine. They are just used very liberally, for all sorts of purposes. All we can say about εις+infinitive is that it indicates purpose. Also your second translation is much better than the first, since the article in front of ἐκ νεκρῶν ἐγερθέντι means we are talking about one specific dude who was raised.
At any rate, good to see some greek discussion going on in the blogosphere. Keep it up!
March 20, 2008 at 4:37 pm
Thanks for stopping by Adam, as well as for inspiring this post. The discussion has been fun and I hope there are more like it.
March 21, 2008 at 2:34 pm
I think you’re wrong about how specific we can get, it just means work. Its still a prepositional phrase, regardless – the infinitive is substantized with the article. My analysis is based on studying the vast majority of occurrences of this structure in the NT. εις is the most commonly used form for this construction, but a number of different prepositions are used in this way in the New Testament and they all consistently retain their spacial meaning at least in a figurative sense.
March 25, 2008 at 5:45 am
This is interesting to me – I’ve been looking at Romans 7:4 recently, but more because of the phrase “body of Christ” – body terminology in Paul is intriguing me at the moment. In my research, I’ve been arguing against an ecclesial reading of “body of Christ” in this verse (contra Robinson and Milbank; and in agreement with Gundry and Moo, amongst others) – and now I’m pondering how the hints at bodily union suggested here fit into the flow of Paul’s argument. It has always struck me as intriguing that Paul mentions Christ’s body here at all – but perhaps, if he is using the metaphor of marital union here, it makes perfect sense – any thoughts?
March 25, 2008 at 4:04 pm
Unfortunately I’m still learning the Greek alphabet and my perception of the source text is wholly reliant on what few materials I have available to me in English. I do enjoy how many of us seem to find the language in this passage particularly compelling from so many angles. This is what is fueling my desire to learn more, and it has been rewarding from the beginning.