This is a response to TC’s latest post based on his current reading in the TNIV. Since he quoted me and predicted that I would like the TNIV translation best I decided to look at all of my translations as well as the Greek which underlies them. For those unfamiliar with the passage, I am quoting the last phrase of verse 26 and all of verse 27 in 1 Corinthians chapter 9. The TNIV and Greek read as follows:
- 26 I do not fight like a boxer beating the air. 27 No, I strike a blow to my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize.
- 26 οὕτως πυκτεύω ὡς οὐκ ἀέρα δέρων· 27 ἀλλὰ ὑπωπιάζω μου τὸ σῶμα καὶ δουλαγωγῶ, μήπως ἄλλοις κηρύξας αὐτὸς ἀδόκιμος γένωμαι.
This is the first time I’ve used the BAGD and a few of my other new resources. First off, I have to say that they are great! It is amazing to read the nuances that can be found in the Greek in these few words. The downside is that I had a really hard time finding an English translation that seemed to capture the Greek expression without being too free with the idioms. Fortunately, I did find a modern English translation that was very good, but I’m sorry TC, it was not the TNIV. I very much prefer the translation given by The New English Bible:
- 26 I am like a boxer who does not beat the air; 27 I bruise my own body and make it know its master, for fear that after preaching to others I should find myself rejected.
What an enjoyable translation. Every once in a while the NEB really shines, and unfortunately the REB altered this reading for one that I find less accurate and less enjoyable to read. Now I couldn’t resist, so here is my somewhat unpolished translation in which I try to retain some of the Greek nuance:
- 26 Therefore I box not as one whiffing the air, 27 rather I black my eyes, bringing my body into subjection; that perhaps having proclaimed to others I might have become unqualified.
It’s getting late so I have posted the last draft of my translation. It could use some clarification but I think it at least captures the essence of what I am concentrating on. Feel free to pick my version apart, post your favorite translation, or translate it yourself.
April 14, 2008 at 11:41 am
[...] Greek. I’m sure that’s going to be helpful to all sorts of other people. Most recently he’s been getting down to it with the BAGD – the big boys’ lexicon. His particular examination raises some questions in [...]
April 14, 2008 at 12:38 pm
Hi Nathan –
I’ve just now started reading your blog — it is very interesting. You are going on to my blogroll the next time I update it.
I do believe you have the motivation to succeed at teaching yourself Biblical languages.
Just to stay on topic, and for your interest, here is how the Inclusive Bible translates the verses you are thinking about:
[24] You know that in a race everyone runs, but only one wins the prize. [25] Athletes deny themselves all sorts of things. They do this to win a laurel wreath, even though it withers. We, on the other hand, do so to win an imperishable crown.
[26] I don’t run like one who loses sight of the finish line. I don’t fight as if I were beating the air. [27] What I do is discipline my body and keep it under control, for fear that, after having preached to others, I myself should be disqualified.
April 14, 2008 at 1:10 pm
Nathan, I hoped would have gone with the TNIV…lol.
But your choice of the NEB is not bad:
“26 I am like a boxer who does not beat the air; 27 I bruise my own body and make it know its master, for fear that after preaching to others I should find myself rejected.”
But I still think the TNIV brings out the image of the Greek verbs much more.
Nathan said:
“rather I black my eyes, bringing my body into subjection; that perhaps having proclaimed to others I might have become unqualified.”
I like you own effort at a translation, but it seems like you have rearranged the syntax, turning δουλαγωγω into a participle and removing μου το σωμα as the object of υπωπιαζω.
But I do admire you effort.
April 14, 2008 at 2:18 pm
Nathan, I like the NEB rendering. I also found God’s Word which says: “Rather, I toughen my body with punches and make it my slave so that I will not be disqualified after I have spread the Good News to others.” It’s not as good as the NEB or TNIV but it does have connotations of a blow. My vote is still for TNIV.
April 14, 2008 at 3:19 pm
Thanks for the comments, and welcome Iyov.
A small piece of background about my translation above. I really wanted to make this post last night, and my brain started shutting down before I was done translating the verses. The biggest critiques I can give myself (and the NEB) are that they don’t make an intelligent point. I think the TNIV does make a more clear point, even if I’d use different vocab. As TC has pointed out, I also don’t understand the underlying Greek. I can look up the vocabulary in a lexicon of course, but figuring out the grammar and meaning is still beyond me.
My next step, if I get around to it, is to look up more boxing/pugilism/sparring terminology to see if I can get a more idiomatic rendering that still reflects the Greek vocabulary. I think Doug’s translation (linked in first comment) is a good example of how this could be done, though I’d probably shoot for something in between both our versions.
I also didn’t diagram the sentences which would help me figure out how everything relates to each other, something I’ve got no practice at doing, and which seems like an obvious next step. Or I could trying the phrasing technique that Mounce suggests. I’ve been reading his book but skipping over the exercises so far.
April 14, 2008 at 6:00 pm
Nathan, as I said I do like you paraphrase on 1 Cor 9:27, but I was just pointing out some nuts and bolts issues.
I’ve benefited from doing exercises. For example, when I went through Wenham’s “The Elements of NT Greek,” I did all the exercises. I really helps. You’ll be richly blessed.
April 14, 2008 at 6:24 pm
I’m glad you like it TC, I’m just not happy with it. I wasn’t done with it last night and posted it in a draft form. I still have a few things I wanted to look at because I don’t think the concluding remarks properly capture the purpose of his comparisons. I’m still trying to figure out what it is I think.
I can usually come up with time to read, but it seems a lot harder to bust out a notebook and start writing. I suppose it takes more effort too, and I’m about as lazy as they come.
April 14, 2008 at 6:55 pm
Nathan, let me paraphrase Paul to some extent: But, you’ll have to strike a blow to your body and make it your slave so that after you have read Mounce and others, you will be disqualified for the prize of getting the nuts and bolts of the Greek syntax, because you didn’t do the exercises…lol
April 14, 2008 at 7:01 pm
LMAO! I’ll get around to them on my second read-through.
April 14, 2008 at 7:06 pm
I’m speaking from experience. Doing the exercises really helps. I’ve wrestled with what you’re wrestling with, but I convinced myself that I must do them.
April 15, 2008 at 12:29 am
[...] Nathan Stitt under Greek, TNIV, Translation I ran short of time last night when working on my post for this passage. I’ve spent the last hour trying to find the idioms I was looking for [...]
April 15, 2008 at 11:20 am
[...] Nathan’s first offering I black my eyes, bringing my body into subjection [...]
April 15, 2008 at 12:27 pm
Bravo Nathan!
Have you read Chuck Palahniuk’s Fight Club: A Novel?
The first rule about fight club is you don’t talk about fight club.
I tell Walter I fell.
I did this to myself.
Paul, of course, breaks the first rule and isn’t having his schizophrenic hallucination either. Nonetheless, he is like Palahniuk’s narrator fighting himself. Or as you say he says, “I black my eyes, bringing my body into subjection.”
Since others’ are giving you favorite translations as somehow more “accurate,” here’s J. B. Phillips:
“I am no shadow-boxer, I really fight! I am my body’s sternest master,”
But we should also listen to Luke (and maybe Paul’s there by his side) as he translates the words of Jesus from Aramaic to Greek. It’s the parable of the widower complaining to the dishonest hard hearted judge (as we might approach in the same way our most different Judge):
ἵνα μὴ εἰς τέλος ἐρχομένη ὑπωπιάζῃ με
And now Phillips taking the Greeked Aramaic on into English (with a wonderful combining of τέλος with ὑπωπιάζῃ in that last part of Luke 18:5):
“or else her continual visits will be the death of me!”
April 15, 2008 at 1:28 pm
[...] conversation about 1 Corinthians 9:27 seems to be growing. See TC, Nathan (and again) and my previous post. Now the pugilistic Peter Kirk has stepped into the ring, and I [...]
April 15, 2008 at 3:29 pm
Well, Kurk, Luke 18:5 could be literal – the judge could really be afraid that the widow will beat him up. Some women give that impression at times. And I remember seeing that seriously suggested somewhere not long ago. But probably not, another metaphor.
April 15, 2008 at 5:11 pm
Kurk, I see this post lured you out of hiding. I haven’t read the novel, but I did enjoy the movie. Also, I picked up a copy of Barnstone’s translations that I hope to read through shortly.
May 2, 2008 at 6:03 am
[...] Scripturae (Nathan Stitt): here, here and [...]